Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to insightful questions, the podcast that's all about getting to know east side Prep's new head of school, Sam Yiswak. We're diving into his vision and bringing together voices from all around EPs in cool monthly chats. Get ready to dig deep into what leadership and community really mean. You're tuned in to insightful questions.
Hi, I'm Karen Mills, eastside prep literary thinking teacher and faculty development coordinator.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: And I'm Anne Duffy, EPs science faculty member. We're excited to chat with Sam about teaching and specifically about teaching at EPs. Hi, Sam. Sam.
[00:00:45] Speaker C: Hi, Anne. Hey, Karen.
[00:00:46] Speaker A: Hey, Sam.
[00:00:47] Speaker C: I'm really looking forward to chatting today, but before we begin, I'm wondering if you could each share just a brief story about what got you into teaching. I know for me, it was kind of a couple of things. The first was when I discovered I wanted to be a history major.
I realized I was taught history in the way I discovered what history really was all about and the excitement and the mystery and the puzzling that came with it. So there was this little piece of like, ooh, I want to bring this to kids. And then the kind of other reason was thinking about the school structure I went through and how it was set up and was that the best way a school experience should be based on who had the power, who had the privilege, things of that nature. So a couple of factors that drew me into the classroom. So I'm really curious. I mean, you all are incredible teachers. How'd you get your start?
[00:01:44] Speaker B: Well, I kind of got into it by volunteering at my kids school. I was Miss Anne, the scientist in kindergarten. Well, I wasn't in kindergarten, but the kids were, and it was fun, but I didn't want to teach high.
[00:01:59] Speaker A: I just.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: I was in my PhD program and knew I was going to teach college. And so it was kind of at the same time I was starting grad school and teaching undergrads, I was teaching fifth graders. And I thought, this is.
They're two different things, but it's what attracted me. And then somehow along the way, high school was a perfect hybrid.
[00:02:19] Speaker C: Awesome. What was it like to be miss Anne, the scientist? Scientist?
[00:02:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: I'd walk into a room of five year olds, and I'd say, who's a scientist? And every kid would raise their hand.
[00:02:31] Speaker C: Cool.
[00:02:31] Speaker B: I'd walk into the lab when I was in grad school, and I'd say, who's a scientist? And they'd all look at me like I was nuts because they were going to medical school. They weren't scientists.
[00:02:41] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh. Karen.
[00:02:43] Speaker A: Yeah. My journey to becoming a teacher was unintentional and inevitable because I went to graduate school for library science and knew that I wanted to work with kids, probably in a public library. But then I finished graduate school and immediately got hired by eastside prep to help them start the school and help start the library. So a little bit unintentional there. I eventually got into teaching in the english classroom, and then that was kind of it for me. I say inevitable also because both of my parents were teachers.
[00:03:21] Speaker C: Yes. My mother in law taught first grade for about 30 years, and my grandma taught high school and middle school for about 30 years. In fact, when I was in middle school, she was a substitute teacher for my school. And I remember very vividly the day I got in really big trouble by my grandma in front of everyone in social studies class.
That's a very embarrassing moment for a middle schooler.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: My dad taught in Bellevue when I was learning how to drive. He was a driver's ed teacher by that point. Nice. So he was my trainer.
[00:03:58] Speaker C: Was he your driver's ed teacher?
[00:04:00] Speaker A: No, I didn't go to his high school, but okay. He was fully entrenched.
[00:04:06] Speaker C: Just diving into these origin stories a little bit. Anne, my recollection is, and check me on this. Did you have a moment in industry and then moved into. Or were you solely in education or in college and then teaching in secondary?
[00:04:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I was on the professor route.
[00:04:26] Speaker C: The professor route, right.
[00:04:28] Speaker B: And taught organic chemistry. It was my field, my area of specialty.
[00:04:32] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:04:32] Speaker B: And it was around the time I had. Maybe medical school isn't for you speech just come out of my mouth without thinking that an opportunity to teach at my daughter's high school came up, much to her disappointment.
And it was only supposed to be for a year. So I was taking a year to see what teaching at high tech high was like, and then I didn't come back to teach college.
[00:04:59] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh. So once you were at high tech.
[00:05:01] Speaker B: High, it was just fun. I laughed every day. And I still do. Like, the kids are great. They're funny, they're creative, and I like encouraging kids towards something.
[00:05:11] Speaker C: And, Karen, you've had, what I think is pretty amazing is you've had a number of roles here, all educational, but each of those roles, you've had to develop and learn new skills and kind of not reinvent yourself.
But it's been this really cool progression. Like, you've seen a lot of different facets of the school. What's that been like for you?
[00:05:32] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I feel really lucky that as my interests have changed and as I've gained skills in one area but gotten interested in something else, that I've been able to move into all the different positions. Right. I think everything you do sort of builds to the next thing, and then you're able to use the skills and content that you had to move forward. So it's been a trip to watch the school build and grow from 16 students to however many we have today, over 500. So every once in a while, I step back and look and am kind of floored by what has developed, just.
[00:06:12] Speaker C: Kind of go, whoa.
[00:06:14] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:06:14] Speaker C: Look what's happened in the last 2021 years.
[00:06:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:18] Speaker C: Wonderful.
[00:06:20] Speaker A: So, Sam, we've got a first question for you. What do you think are qualities, skills of good teaching, especially ones that are transferable between disciplines, divisions?
[00:06:33] Speaker C: That's a big one. So I think there are some universal pieces to teaching that can transcend whether you're doing a science class or a history class or whether you're teaching a first grader, fifth grader, twelveth grader, college student. I mean, I think, honestly, I think the most important thing is your ability to listen to the kid, to really hear a student, because whatever it is they're advocating for in the moment, it's the most important thing to them. And that just looks really differently. What I think is so fun about schools, thinking about ours, which is 512, and just thinking about the public ed space is the arc of adolescent development is so fascinating. What kids are ready for, what they can do, how their definitions of achievement change, of accomplishment, of daring, of challenge. Right? Like it changes so often. And so being able to listen to where they are and hear what they're asking and to send the message that as the adult in front of you right now, I really care about you and what you're saying, I think that is just a baseline for this job. I've mentioned this before because I love stealing other people's quotes. I have no original content, but I just amass things. And my mentor teacher, she wasn't even my mentor teacher. She was the first teacher I met at Newport High in my program at UW. She said, sam, they do not know what you. They don't care what you know till they know you care. And I've used that around here, and I just think it's so true. So I think listening is transferable.
I think being able to read a room which really is related to listening, but really understanding, like, what are students or humans, adults, whomever, coming into the room with what are the conditions of the day? Are there external conditions? Did something happen to the news that we're going to be carrying? Did someone happen in someone's personal life? Is someone excited? Because maybe they're getting their license this afternoon and they can't really focus on me right now. So understanding the room and understanding how to respond to that energy, I think, is an important skill in teaching. It certainly goes without saying, and I list it third, and in no way mean to say this isn't important, but what's so great about working here is all of our teachers are expert in their subject areas, and they really love what it is they're teaching that's thrilling. Karen, you help students unlock the magic of the written word and see between lines and maybe see themes and ideas that until you came along, they didn't. So, like, we're excited about that and sharing that with kids. So what did I say? I think I said, listening, reading the room. Oh, yeah. The whole content and skill knowledge of your discipline.
And I think, too, I could go on. But one last one I'd throw in is self awareness, an understanding that we are humans, too, and that we're not necessarily neutral actors in this whole thing. That I bring a lens, I bring a stance. Some kids connect to me because of who I am. Some kids don't. It's okay that that exists. It's not okay if I don't recognize that and work to bridge that and create that connection. So that's my medium answer to that question.
What do you think are the sort of immutable aspects of teaching?
[00:10:01] Speaker B: I mean, it's all about relationship.
That's why I teach high school and not college. If it was about the content, I'd still be teaching at the college level. And I tell the kids all the time, I'm teaching you chemistry, but I'm not teaching you. That's not why I teach you. I teach you to think and act responsibly, innovate, wisely.
I like that.
[00:10:26] Speaker C: Plants.
[00:10:29] Speaker A: Yeah. I come back to some training that I did a few years ago to become an educational coach.
The teacher was talking about if you approach every situation, classroom, student, group of people that you're working with with compassion and curiosity, then the relationships build. The classrooms can happen. The culture can kind of settle in itself and create its own space. So I heard that it was a few years ago, and every time I'm in a tough situation, I come back to that and I think, okay, how can I ask the right questions and get to the heart of what's going on. I think that's something that you can take into any classroom or any workspace or home situation, whatever.
[00:11:19] Speaker B: So, Sam, where do you think teaching is headed? I mean, how do you see it evolving? What steps do we need to take to ensure that the success of our current and future students keeps meeting our standards the way we've set them up?
[00:11:35] Speaker C: Well, that's a huge question. Obviously, the amazing thing about teaching is we have a sense of where it's headed, but it's just so challenging to predict.
New technologies, new student interests, new industries, new jobs, new discoveries, all of these inform our practice and shape our planning and shape our thinking, but we don't know what those are going to be.
So really, the most important thing is that as a school, as a teacher, as someone working with young people, we remain always open to the possibilities.
We have some incredibly strong tried and true methods and techniques that we all use on a day to day basis with kids. We know how to assess, we know how to communicate, we know how to spark interest, and those things will continue to persist. But there might be new ways of doing that and new ways of helping students to show what they know. And if we don't have a curious mindset about that, we will miss out on all kinds of opportunities. One other thing about the future. Oh, this is so good about the future of education.
I hope this school is getting better at providing more authentic professional development opportunities for ever more seasoned teachers. That's certainly an area that I think after a certain point when folks like you all have been around enough, like just going to the conference ain't cutting it. I mean, maybe there's some cool new things and maybe there's some networking, but in terms of a truly holistic, reflective experience that just feels authentic and doesn't feel like hoops, that's what we're working on with our professional development project and our resident teacher program. And there's still a lot to sort out and there's still a lot to refine. But I think giving our experts, giving our veteran folk, giving all of our faculty and staff the opportunity to grow and to grow on their own terms, in terms of setting goals and thinking about what's exciting to them, more schools need to be thinking about that. And you've had a PD experience, if I recall.
[00:13:58] Speaker A: You were there.
[00:13:59] Speaker C: I was. You invited me as like the fifth.
[00:14:03] Speaker B: Yeah, well, because you were on Chrissy's and I was like, I want the type of feedback that Sam's going to provide because you always start with something positive and I don't think that you ever said anything negative, but in terms of framing growth, there was always, this is what you're really good at, and this is where I think that you could get better. So it never felt like a critique, it always felt like encouragement. So that's why you were there. And I saw you do that with Chrissy and I wanted it for myself.
[00:14:31] Speaker C: I recall, I don't mean to put you on the spot, but I felt like you had a little bit of a breakthrough moment, because some of the architecture of our PDP, at times it feels like you have to push through it, and that's something that we want to consider, but it's also a very, at times, open ended process. And you spoke really energetically about how you kind of had a breakthrough during that time.
[00:14:55] Speaker B: There were categories and all of the things that I don't know, the lingo.
[00:15:01] Speaker A: To domain, domain indicators.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: Yes, Karen's good at it. So I went through a very piagetian crisis of learning for the education people out there where I had this conflict that I had to resolve. And then once I owned it myself and made it mine and created what I wanted to create, and it didn't look like Chrissy's and it didn't look like anybody else's. Then I realized the value and the power of doing the PDP program, because that process, that step of kind of being mad about it and then resolving that conflict is what really helped me make it really powerful and personal to me.
[00:15:46] Speaker C: Well, I think that moment of emotion and tension and just sort of like, what is this is very authentic and means what happened afterwards was authentic. I had something similar happen. My fifth quarter of my teaching program was we were done student teaching, and we were taking a few more classes for our certificates. But the teaching side of it was largely reflective in this big old portfolio project, and I was very sour about it most of the time. This is hoops, I'm already done, what's the point? Until I did it. And then suddenly something caught fire where I was like, well, wait a minute, we've kind of done a lot in the last year and a half and I didn't know any of this two years ago. And so sort of that same pushing through. And then when I realized it wasn't box checking, but it was an authentic experience, it made the work so much different.
[00:16:43] Speaker B: Yeah, it changed everything for me once that ownership was internalized and I realized I can make it whatever I want. And that's where the power was.
[00:16:53] Speaker C: That's great. Now, Karen, you now have experience really coordinating and help shape and frankly, build our resident teacher program. What's that been like?
[00:17:04] Speaker A: It's been an amazing experience. It started with thinking about, how do I teach somebody how to teach, right? What are the skills? What are the building blocks? And so a lot of the program started out with, like, let's tear things apart, kind of isolate different skills, isolate different pieces of the profession, really explore what people new to the profession need to know at a very fundamental, basic level, and then really kind of learn those, see them being taught in classes, practice doing those things. And then at this point in the school year, we're in March, they've got only a couple of months left as residents, and they're really pulling all of those pieces back together. So what was kind of isolated is now sort of coming back together.
And for me, it was super important to be able to figure out what all those pieces were, to figure out those fundamentals, to be able to see residents using them in classes and talking about it with other colleagues and really kind of engaging in the whole process. And then at this point, building them back together into their practice. It's been such a cool experience to watch people learn.
[00:18:20] Speaker C: That's great. It's got to be so kind of like with our younger students, but with the residents seeing some of the lessons you taught and other folks who were in their sort of teaching seminar in the fall, like, oh, my gosh, I hope them learn that.
[00:18:34] Speaker A: Yes. I sat there like a proud parent.
That sounds very silly, but it was like proud mama moments where they're pulling all of this together and having reflections. You were talking in about the power of reflection, right? That's what the PDP is all about. And that power of being able to reflect and see somebody else reflecting on that, and everybody hears something different. I can teach class, and all 18 students in my classroom are going to hear a version of what I said. So to be able to have the residents kind of tell us again what we've taught to them, I know they're listening, and I know they're learning. We've had some terrific residents.
[00:19:18] Speaker B: Well, the other thing I think both the PDP and the resident teacher program has is that the residents are talking to everybody when we sit and eat lunch, and everybody who's doing the PDP talks to everybody as we sit and do lunch. And so it's not just what they're learning, but it's what they share and they ask questions about while they're interacting with other faculty members, which is really cool.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: One of the other things that I've really come to see very clearly this year is how invested all of our colleagues are in the success of our residents and in each other.
Everybody has stepped forward. Everybody has said, come into my classroom. Come learn from me. Yeah. Let's sit down and have a conversation over a cup of coffee or lunch or breakfast.
It shows what a strong learning community we have and that we all value that so much.
[00:20:11] Speaker C: And the kids pick up on that. So the collaboration and the support and the colleagueship they see at the lunch table and in the hallway, or when we go to a performance or a game or something that informs how they think about working. That's why I think they're so particularly collaborative and understand that, like, learning is not a zero sum game. We can all learn more together. But that starts with the adults in the.
[00:20:37] Speaker A: Yep. Yep, absolutely. Sam, I've got another question for you. Ready?
[00:20:42] Speaker C: Ready.
[00:20:43] Speaker A: You've moved from teaching to middle school head and now head of school.
What are some of the teaching skills? Maybe some of the things we've already talked about have transferred well into your administrative role.
[00:20:57] Speaker C: Wow. Yeah. Well, if I go back to that initial question, I think listening is probably the most important thing I can do. I have to be the listener in chief.
If I have a parent or guardian who's just worried about their kid and they come to talk to me and they don't think I'm giving them the time of day, that's not good.
In the hustle and bustle of the day, if there's a faculty or staff member or a student and something's bugging them, I need to be able to slow down and attend to that moment and not be elsewhere. So I think the listening and the kind of understanding where folks are, I would say that certainly moving from teaching to middle school head, but definitely moving from middle school head to head of school.
I don't know how much I used to do this in my teaching practice. I guess this is a skill that I'm developing now more, but delegation and actually, yeah, there is something here. When you're working with your kiddos and you want them to do something authentic, you have to trust they're going to do it and not kind of manipulate the outcome. Well, that is the same in this role. I mean, it's a complex organization. I can't see 90% of what's happening on a day to day basis, but I can trust that the right people are in the right place doing the right thing. And if questions arise, problems arise.
We made an error okay, let's problem solve and keep rolling.
I think one of the biggest area of growth, though, moving from position to position is sort of the domain content.
So as a middle school head, learning what it means to work with adults to improve their craft, learning what it means to do that job, and then as a head of school, learning what it means to work with a board to understand governance and finance. And for me, I do consider myself a little bit of a lifelong learner. And that part has been wonderful because there's so many familiar domains like the interpersonal skills and, oh, I don't know, we're a school and that's our job. But then the pieces that support that, that are new to the position have just been so fun to dive into.
[00:23:19] Speaker A: Love it.
[00:23:20] Speaker B: Yeah, this has been fun.
[00:23:22] Speaker C: Thank you for taking the time to share your stories and just chat about school. I really appreciate it.
[00:23:28] Speaker A: Thanks for the conversation.
[00:23:29] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:32] Speaker B: Gain more insights. Check out the EPs weekly news each Friday.
