Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the first episode of the 2025 insightful questions podcast. I'm your host Sam Usuak and I'm excited to launch this year's conversations under the theme Act Responsibly Care through Clarity.
This theme invites us to think about how we approach everything from our communication to our planning, decision making and goal setting. Whether we're launching a new initiative, clarifying expectations, or guiding day to day interactions, clarity helps us act responsibly by aligning our action with our values. It strengthens trust, deepens understanding, and helps everyone in the EPS community, from students to trustees, work together with purpose.
Today we're joined by two leaders who spend their days thinking deeply about how students learn, grow and interact across divisions.
Sarah Peden is the Head of Middle School. Before stepping into this role at EPS in 2022, Sarah served as an English teacher, a 9th grade dean and an assistant head of Middle School. She brings a strong belief in the values of nurturing student centered environments where young people can grow as critical thinkers and compassionate communicators.
Outside of school, Sarah enjoys cooking, traveling, reading both novels and poetry, practicing yoga, swimming and hiking with her family.
Verdi Sales is the Associate Head of Upper School. She joined EPS in 2016 as an upper School English teacher and became Assistant Head of upper School in 2022.
Verity believes that learning from one another and how to communicate with one another is a skill that translates beyond the classroom, a belief that strongly aligns with this year's theme. Verity spends most of her free time joyfully wrangling her toddler and baby future EPS Eagles class of 2040 and 2042.
Together, Sarah and Verity will help us explore how clarity in communication supports care, connection and growth across our school community.
Welcome, Sarah and Verity.
[00:02:03] Speaker B: Hi Sam. Thank you.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: How are y' all doing today?
[00:02:05] Speaker C: Doing well?
[00:02:06] Speaker B: Yeah, doing great. Happy to be here.
[00:02:08] Speaker A: Well, I'm so glad you're here to discuss this topic, so I'm gonna go ahead and jump right in.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: Excellent.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: So I just mentioned that this year's theme is Act Responsibly Care through Clarity.
So be honest, when you heard about this theme, did it spark deep reflection, Maybe a little eye roll or a mix of both? What does it mean to you now that the year is.
[00:02:34] Speaker C: I was really excited. I love the idea of clarity and I see it as a form of care. I believe deeply in having systems and that's an equitable process and practice because it allows people access to what we do in schools. And so for me, the thing that I think of when I think of Care Through Clarity is making sure that we all know what we're trying to do, and we all have the ability to. To do it in ways that meet our needs.
[00:03:03] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I also think the mission point act responsibly. I feel of all our mission points is often the one where we maybe cheer with the least amount of enthusiasm. Like, we want to.
We want to innovate, we want to think, we want to lead. And so when we have something that feels a little more purposeful, I really appreciate that. I read Dare to Lead a number of years ago. It was a summer reading option. And Brene Brown really just hammers home that clear is kind, and that's something that I think is really important when we work with young people.
[00:03:36] Speaker A: And unclear is unkind.
[00:03:38] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
[00:03:40] Speaker A: So if Care Through Clarity had a mascot, what would it be and why?
[00:03:45] Speaker C: I think it would be a beehive, because.
Okay, I'm going to nerd out on bees for a second.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: Awesome.
[00:03:54] Speaker C: Different bees have different jobs, and it's a really, really clear structure, and so there's a lot going on. When you look at a beehive, it's like, buzz, buz, buzz, buzz, buzz. But there are drones, there are worker bees, there's the queen bee. And they all have different roles within the community. And so for me, there's care and building this thing together. There are really clear expectations about how you operate.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Wow. I took the metaphor in an entirely different direction, and I didn't actually think very metaphorically. I thought very literally. And for me, clarity is Pilot G2 black pen, not in 0.5 ink, but 0.038 ink.
[00:04:34] Speaker C: That's a good pen.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: It's a very good pen. Yeah. I love this pen because one, it writes really well. It's nice and small. It's very thin. It's a very clear pen. But also, just having a go to instrument that I use all the time has been very helpful for me. Like, if I lose them and run out, I know exactly what to reorder. And so clarity, I think, also can cut down on decision fatigue, which we all face.
And so my pilot G2 38 black pen is my mascot for Clarity.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: So we have a beehive, and we got a amazing pen.
[00:05:09] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:05:09] Speaker A: That's fantastic.
[00:05:10] Speaker C: We'll have honey, and we can write signs and poems.
[00:05:13] Speaker B: We could write poems.
[00:05:14] Speaker C: We could write beehives.
English teachers.
[00:05:17] Speaker B: Yes. Unite. Here we are.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: Sarah. Middle schoolers are known for a wide range of. Of communication styles. Some loud, some subtle, some emoji heavy. What does clear communication look like at that stage and how do you help students grow into it?
[00:05:35] Speaker C: That's a really good question. I think communication is a two way thing to help students develop their communication skills. Folks who support their growth and development really have to practice being clear and being clear in multiple ways. So that can be for some students, that direct articulation of like these are the needs and this is what we need to do is really effective. For other students, it may look like tactile kind of engagement. I would say the other thing when I'm thinking about how we support middle schoolers and growing in their communication is practice. Lots and lots of practice. We're not seeking perfection. And in fact, I think in some ways when we talk about wanting kids to communicate well, I think sometimes we limit their ability to communicate at all. There's a hesitancy that I'm going to say the wrong thing and we don't learn how to be clear as communicators. Certainly as an adult, I always have places to grow in my communication skills. And I think practice just having kids get in the habit of communicating in a myriad different ways will help them on that journey towards clarity.
[00:06:41] Speaker A: I really appreciate that it is learnable and yet it takes practice. And to expect perfection right off the bat is going to sort of doom that enterprise. And I feel like I still working on what does it mean to be clear. It really is an art verity. Upper schoolers can be so wonderfully articulate, but they can also be mysteriously vague at times. So what do you see as the biggest communication hurdle for older teens? And how can adults support clarity without taking over?
[00:07:12] Speaker B: Again, another great question, and I really appreciate Sarah's answer about practice and giving them the space to communicate in what way works for them. I think older, older teenagers are balancing the strong need for independence with also this fear of vulnerability. So oftentimes that means not saying anything or saying one word answers. How was your day? Fine is the safest option for them. And so I think space is actually really helpful. Even though it can be hard because you want to just continue to ask more questions. But allowing space for teens to process in their head before they communicate. I also think sometimes older teens think that we live in their brains so they don't need to communicate as much. And so they'll sort of come in and say, well, you know about that thing, right? It's that thing. And you know how I feel about it. And it's like, oh, actually catch me up here, give me the context. Tell me more, tell me more. Yeah, Tell me more. Can you say that in a different way or help me and educate me? And so I think asking questions can also be really helpful. And I've never learned more about teenagers than when I'm driving and they're in the back of a bus or a minivan and have conversations. So when in doubt, go for a good long drive because you will probably they'll either open up or they'll be in the backseat with their friends and you'll learn all the cool stuff that the teens are doing.
[00:08:37] Speaker C: That was one of the things Michelle Eichard shared when she was a visiting scholar about sitting and letting kids sort of talk in the back of the car.
And that distance and maybe not making the direct eye contact actually allowed for better communication.
And I think there's a lot of truth to that.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: Well, I think for our parents and guardians listening I know this is something as a parent is sometimes real frustrating. You know, the one word answer. How was whatever. You know, this is kind of like big deal thing that I'm taking the time to check in on with my kids, my 18 year old and my almost 13 year old. And when I get a good, like I almost get frustrated. Like what?
What do you mean? Just good. But there's an art to opening the.
[00:09:21] Speaker B: Conversation and I think it's so easy for us to do because we fill in the silence with our own narratives as the listener. So you're like good. What does that mean? Were you the best of the bunch or are you devastated? Like, I don't know.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:09:34] Speaker B: And so, you know, and teenagers just aren't in the space to think about your experience and how you're receiving their one word answers. And so, you know, taking a breath, stepping back and allowing them to come to you, I think is really helpful.
[00:09:49] Speaker C: And that one word answer I feel like too is where we get to distinguishing between effective communication and efficient communication.
That fine, from maybe the teen perspective communicates all they think you need to know, right?
[00:10:05] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:10:06] Speaker C: And part of what we do is teach them that effective communication has layers and levels and it's a two way street.
[00:10:14] Speaker A: So if you had a magic wand and could instantly install one shared communication norm across the middle school and upper school for students or adults, what would it be?
What spell would you.
[00:10:26] Speaker C: I feel like we can say it at the count of three.
[00:10:28] Speaker A: Oh yeah.
[00:10:29] Speaker B: Cause it's the same two, three. Assume positive intent. Yes, assume positive intent.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: Can you say more about that?
[00:10:37] Speaker C: Oh, buddy. I think often, as Verity said, we as listeners tell stories in our head about what's going on in somebody else's life. And part of our job is to help kids not only develop communication skills, but what's tied to that is empathy.
And there's a lot of non verbal communication that goes on. And it's good for us to check ourselves before we make assumptions. And I think that piece is often really challenging for young teens, middle schoolers.
[00:11:06] Speaker B: Upper schoolers, even adults as well. You can be so quick to react to something that someone says without pausing and saying, oh, wait, hold on, I think I need to ask a question. Or you said that in this way, and here's how I'm taking that. Is that correct? Because I think so often it can be kind of easy when you're really busy as well, to just move throughout your day and then you come back to a conversation, you're like, huh, that was kind of weird. And again, you tell yourself a story. So slowing down in the moment, most people are going through the world trying to, you know, make their own way in the world. Starting from a place of positive intent, I think allows you to ask those questions as well.
[00:11:43] Speaker C: Yeah. Extend that humanity to the other person.
Our kids are kind and curious most of the time. They're trying to communicate as best they can in that moment.
[00:11:53] Speaker A: Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, we've all had to deliver hard messages at times. And so I'm wondering what's one strategy you use to keep things clear and kind, whether you're talking to students, parents and guardians or a colleague?
[00:12:08] Speaker C: Like you said, it's really hard to take constructive feedback. And I find as, like, moving to the Pacific Northwest, it seems like it's something. I don't know if this is a intense hot take, but it seems like it's hard for us to give and receive feedback here. I mean, I'm from the Southeast. We just did it in like a backhanded way back where I'm from.
[00:12:26] Speaker B: But I'm from the Northeast and it was.
[00:12:28] Speaker C: They were very direct. Yes, that I know. Same.
Helping people recognize that receiving constructive feedback is not a catastrophic event is really important and do that framing as a parent. Speaking from the I perspective, when I get constructive feedback about my child or maybe even how I'm parenting, I immediately go into crisis mode and I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm the worst parent. Oh my gosh, my kid is going to fail.
And really it's a gift. And that feedback is a gift that I'm getting and an opportunity to grow and change. So I think kind of like the assuming positive intent. Assuming positive intent when you receive feedback. I don't know what you think, Verity.
[00:13:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. And I think step one is align yourself. Like, we're all on the same team here. We want our students to grow. We want our students to learn. We want to help our students make right choices. And when they don't make those right choices, we want to help restore and repair them. We're all aligned in that same goal. So I really like to start with that. When I give hard feedback and then a priority for me, which is hard, is to say the hardest part first, because when it starts to be unkind is if people are anticipating feedback and they're ready for it, you know, steeling themselves, okay, I'm gonna get this feedback. And then you sort of layer in, like, hello, and you're doing great in these areas and add too many sort of bubble wrap layers. Then I think it can be really hard for them to know what is the main point? What's the main takeaway here? Like, what are we actually talking about? So saying the hard part first and then allowing the understanding, the warmth, the flexibility to come into that conversation so that your audience is taken care of by having the information that they need at the top of the conversation.
[00:14:12] Speaker C: I talk to kids about how often there's a culture of niceness. And I think in a lot of ways, in the South, I grew up in a culture of niceness. And in some ways that's like, let's decrease the awkwardness, or maybe some of the challenge. What I tell middle schoolers is being nice is not synonymous with being kind.
Kind is taking care of a person, and oftentimes nice is smoothing things over. And it might feel good in the moment, but it's not built on trust. There's a lack of trust, perhaps could be indicative of shallowness in relationship. And so it's our job to cultivate strong relationships so we can take care of one another and be kind and in our connections.
[00:14:55] Speaker B: That feels like a really good reframe for having hard conversations. To go into it with the idea, okay, I. I'm not necessarily trying to be nice. I'm trying to be kind.
[00:15:05] Speaker A: Would you say niceness is a surface element, but kindness is sort of the deeper, more relational element? Maybe?
[00:15:12] Speaker C: Yeah, I think so. You know, nice.
Nice always feels good the whole time. And kind may bring some emotions up. And I think recognizing that we have emotional responses to big stuff is important. And that to grow, there has to be a little bit of a, you know, a little discord maybe, or conflict to grow through or discomfort? Yes, yes to discomfort.
[00:15:41] Speaker B: You can be kind and uncomfortable.
[00:15:43] Speaker A: What you two have just described is a whole nother episode which is, you know, is the goal to avoid conflict or is conflict sometimes necessary to achieve the end? So I have one more question for you today. What is one moment you're looking forward to this year where care through clarity could really shine? Whether it's a tricky conversation, a new project, or just a great team meeting.
[00:16:08] Speaker B: Is it weird to say attendance? Like who gets excited about attendance? I'm getting excited about attendance this year. I really want to clarify to the students expectations for where they are during the day. And that is an act of care because we care about their well being, we care about them making it to their commitment. So I'm really excited to make sure that the expectations for upper school students are very clear and then we can manage that. As you know, if they don't meet.
[00:16:34] Speaker C: Those expectations, people may not be excited about attendance. I don't know if they're.
I wonder if they're also not excited about observations of teachers. But one of the things that I've been working on with the middle school faculty is creating some clarity around what the goal of those observations are. And I'm really excited that we've been talking about. Constructive feedback is really something that's about helping you grow. And when we develop, when folks share goals with me, part of what I'm doing when I'm going in classes, they're already doing amazing stuff. But it's not really helpful for me to just say, oh, that's great, and then keep going. But to be able to give them something like, oh, have you considered this? Or what about. That allows us to engage and sort of develop our craft. So I'm excited about. I'm also excited about attendance, though, but I'm really excited about that.
[00:17:27] Speaker A: I'm excited about both of these things. You know, as I think about where the school is as we start year 23, and where I am as I start year three as the head who followed the founder, I mean, our growth trajectory was so fast and program was built very quickly. And I think we're at a really amazing time in the school's journey to take a beat and to really just make sure that the expectations are clear, how things work is clear, our philosophy of education is clear. We understand what our values are when we're all on the same page and when we're operating from the same starting point. It just makes for a richer experience for everyone and a more cohesive experience for students as they move through the campus, through their programs, through their activities, through their relationships on a day to day basis. So I really appreciate your leadership and partnership in these efforts and thank you for a great conversation.
Thank you for having us anytime, and thank you for joining us for this conversation. As we move through the school year, we invite every member of the EPS community, students, fellow educators, families and trustees to reflect on how care, through clarity can guide our actions, decisions and relationships.
We'll continue exploring this theme from different angles in future episodes. Until then, thanks for listening and we'll see you next time on Insightful Questions.
For more insights, be sure to check out the EPS Weekly News every Friday.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: Sam.
